Thursday, August 7, 2008
Changing Ross Avenue to Cesar Chavez makes logical sense
Email
|
Print
|
Tell us your story
|
Comments (129)
|
Old postcard of Ross Avenue when it had big grand houses.
The tug-of-war currently happening in Dallas over whether or not Ross Ave. should be renamed Cesar Chavez is not going to end nicely. On the one hand, if city officials renege on their olive branch gesture to allow the city’s Latino community to honor a man recognized for fighting for the rights of Latino farm workers, bad feelings will undoubtedly ensue.
On the other hand, if city officials ignore the critics opposed to relegating the Ross family name only to the dusty annals of city history, more bad feelings will ensue. It clearly is a no-win situation for the Dallas City Council.
Or is it?
An editorial in today’s The Dallas Morning News would like to have us think so. According to the paper’s editorial board, the city’s Latino community would do the whole city a favor if we would just forget about changing Ross Ave. to Cesar Chavez Blvd. Their solution is to pick another street and choose someone who has more direct ties to Dallas’ Latinos.
There’s nothing wrong with that suggestion and, in fact, it’s long overdue. There should be recognition for any of our hard-working Latino and Latina politicians, business entrepreneurs or non-profit trailblazers with a street named in their honor, but there should also be a street named for Cesar Chavez too.
For The Dallas Morning News’ editorial board to arbitrarily declare that Cesar Chavez has no real meaning for Dallas Latinos shows a gross insensitivity to the community. Perhaps if they had a Latino/a editorial writer within their ranks who could have clued them in as to why Chavez is significant to all Latinos, then maybe they would have thought twice before publishing their ill-thought piece.
For starters, while it’s true that Cesar Chavez fought for the rights of farm workers, his legacy is that his memory has evolved into a symbol for standing up for the civil rights of all Latinos. His example of non-violence to get his message across is one that is replicated today by new generations of Latinos.
To many of us, he symbolizes the “every-Latino” who rose from humble beginnings, who never forgot his roots and always defended and spoke up for those who had no voice.
Cesar Chavez’ impact on today’s Latinos is something we’re constantly reminded of, especially whenever we hear a politician borrow Chavez’ most famous words: “Si se puede.”
Chavez, by virtue of his deeds, was and is able to bridge the wide variety of Latino cultures and unite us under one proud banner — no small feat.
And why Ross Ave.? There has been so much condemnation voiced over this selection that no one has examined the reason why this street was chosen.
Speaking for myself, the most important reason is because Ross Ave. is home to one of the most important landmarks for Dallas Latinos — the Cathedral Shrine of the Virgin of Guadalupe.
The Cathedral is home to the largest Latino parish congregation in the nation. It holds a significant place in the history of the Dallas Latino community, not to mention that the building is not going anywhere.
It would be far easier to rename Ross Ave. Cesar Chavez Blvd and choose another street to rename for Ross Ave. In reviewing a 1901 Dallas city street directory at the Dallas County Texas Archives website, I discovered it wasn’t the first time Ross Ave. had been renamed.
In fact, in reviewing a Google map of downtown Dallas, the first thing that became apparent was that out of all the streets that wind throughout the heart of the city, there’s no street with a recognizable name that means something to the Latino community.
While there’s Malcolm X, Ervay, Griffin and Ackard to name a few, there’s no street, in a city that is majority Latino, that reflects our presence.
It’s time to change that and understand that there are plenty of streets to go around.
Pegasus News content partner - Latina Lista
Comments
Scott Doyle Verified
It would be far easier to rename Ross Ave. Cesar Chavez Blvd and choose another street to rename for Ross Ave.
Jesus H. Christ. It'd be easier to let the issue die. Get a hobby.
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Matt Anderson Verified
I'm with Scott.
"it wasn’t the first time Ross Ave. had been renamed" -- I think you're wrong there. There was another street that aligned with Ross that was renamed to also be called Ross, but I think Ross has always been Ross. I've got a Dallas street map on my wall that (IIRC) is from 1898, and Ross is clearly there.
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Mike Orren Staff
I saw a post on Frontburner that made a great suggestion:
http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2008...
Chicago has a method of giving streets an "honorary name." Sort of like how 635 here is also "LBJ." So they might give a street like Main Street a secondary sign that says "Mike Orren Way." But it's still Main Street as far as the Post Office, etc. is concerned.
That way you can hand out names willy-nilly without inconveniencing anybody. Sounds like just the placebo this problem needs, and has the added bonus of being a potential revenue generator for the city. Pony up, and we could get Walnut Hill designated "Pegasus Place."
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
chrisdanger Anonymous
It comes down to this: The Dallas PowerTinos think the Ghost Of Caesar Chavez will bring them gifts and good luck on Dias De Los Muertos if they name a street after him...
Im not that much of a chicano studies major, but if you read into the finer points of Caesar Chavez, you'll find that he wasnt a big fan of undocumented workers, which is a large population of ross avenue. I just find that seriously ironic.
The right thing would be to honor a youth(Santos Rodriguez) who lost his life and brought about changes and ingnited the Dallas Latin Community.
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
Hyper-local. Now that's what I'm talkin' about!
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
chrisdanger Anonymous
From Wikipedia:
On a few occasions, concerns that illegal migrant labor would undermine UFW strike campaigns led to a number of controversial events, which the UFW describes as anti-strikebreaking events, but which have also been interpreted as being anti-immigrant. In 1969, Chávez and members of the UFW marched through the Imperial and Coachella Valleys to the border of Mexico to protest growers' use of illegal immigrants as strikebreakers. Joining him on the march were both Reverend Ralph Abernathy and U.S. Senator Walter Mondale. In its early years, Chávez and the UFW went so far as to report illegal aliens who served as strikebreaking replacement workers, as well as those who refused to unionize, to the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
Doyle- love your comment and agree completely. (I especially like the H.)
Being the self-taught psychoanalyst that I am,it seems to me folks that want to change street names to suit their purpose, wish they could change their own names- as if that would somehow magically make their lives better. "It don't work that way!"
Broadway, Wall St., Hollywood & Vine, these street names weren't chosen so they would turn into the select addresses we know them to be now. They're known because of the businesses and community around them put them on the map (so to speak). Just because you name a street, "Cool"drive, doesn't mean it's going to be seen as cool.
In fact it seems you're ashamed of your past by refusing to live through the history of your city.
The businesses and 'industry' on Industrial Blvd were a big part of what put Dallas on the map. Are we ashamed of that?
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
BobS Anonymous
Good point Chris. I've enjoyed that little irony all through this bruhaha. But it's not about the person, is it? It's about the sound of the name.
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bill Betzen Verified
Marisa, Thank you for addressing this most critical issue. We must remember our history! That includes a better remembering of the Ross family. Yes, a street is named after these brothers but who remembers much about them or their families. Three months ago in Dallas I doubt there were even 100 people who could name them or what they did. If the Cesar Chavez name change goes through then a historical marker will be placed at the entry to the West End, currently Ross & North Market, that describes the Ross family and their acheivements. It will be good for us all. Hundreds a day will read more about the Ross family. They will not be lost in an 4-letter street name nobody knows the meaning of, the fate of many true heroes of our culture who are religated to a street name. Fortunately for the Ross brothers this Cesar Chavez renaming process started and their memory can be revived.
Street names should be religated to people who are also in our history books, such as Cesar Chavez. In that manner people will continue to study the reason for the street name. Our own history will be more visible to us.
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
I'm being redundant here, but I disagree with the entire premise of changing street names. The street has been named already- live with it.
If you want to remember someone you feel is important- remember them! Put up a statue if you must. But don't force the people who live and work on Ross to pay for changing the street name to whomever you decide is the person of the day.
How long will it be before someone comes along and wants to change the name to something else?
I think for some folks, a LIFE should be sought out and acquired.
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Jesus Valadez Verified
Stop it with the name changes! Do you people not know how this is going to screw up my TomTom map?! It won't be updated until a whole other year and I don't feel like doing it manually. Grr....
I'm Hispanic and I don't care about a damn street having an Hispanic person's name. Some people just love to bitch for the hell of it.
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Clay213 Anonymous
Could we please get a moratorium on articles about changing street names to cesar chavez whatever... seriously.. there have been enough!
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Clay213 Anonymous
Or at least if there are going to be more articles.. could we please get some new content? Or at the very least A NEW PICTURE
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Teresa Gubbins Staff
clay213, i added a photo of an old postcard of Ross Ave, i love old postcards, hope it provides a pleasing visual distraction and gives this story the patina of newness
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
lrbox Anonymous
First, shouldn't the Hispanic community respect Dallas' heritage and past, also. They need to pick a street without historical meaning to Dallas' history. I think there are plenty of other options. Respect is a two-way street.
Second, in a slow economy a name change seems like a terrible idea for businesses on Ross or Industrial. Businesses are just trying to get by but now the city is going to force a street name change and the business have to spend thousands to change all their business materials.
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
chrisdanger Anonymous
Lr, mainly this whole thing is being ran by the PowerTinos, whos general idea is that everything should revolve around them, not to mention they want to show they have "Chicano Cred" with the rest of the community at large. As im married into a latin family, ive gotten some pretty interesting responses from both the young and older folks. Both seem to agree that the street should'nt be named for Chavez. If we're going to change street names, lets go with a hypernaming scheme and keep it local, as theres plenty of local latinos who deserve respect.
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
xdavidwattsx Anonymous
Can't we just change the name of the city to Los Dallas and chill out on the street bickering?
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Jason Rice Verified
Mark this day on the calendar. Remember what you were doing this very moment.
chad>> Or at least if there are going to be more articles.. could we please get some new content?
Chad and I are in complete accord. OMG he must be right... (yes, Chad, it scares me too)
3 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
alexander troup Verified
the changing of old Ross avenue today,kind of like changing the way we were brought up, then again,things get old and somethings have to be told new, names like ....ROSS Ave or ROSSA ave, dates back to the 1870s, when it was connected with a freedmans town community, and the central railroad which connected to deep elm by strange and ecentric road formations, to later become the 2 hand alley street or boarding house row in the 1930s, while today, how many real or old fashion dallasites can recall when it was what ross used to be like, GOSS on Ross, who sold used cars, or the Penguine bar, all nice neat characters now long gone, so maybe it should become the lettice kings road to the 21st century, while I May move to mexico and change some of their street, to SAM HOUSTON AVE, or L.B.J Road, and then we can call this a good trade....or is my english to broken......change is part of life, to enjoy and recognize, Ross ave is an old name....who can recall what it means today, until then Alexander Troup URBAN HISTORAIN.
3 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
alexander troup Verified
Some more on Ross ave, when it was Goss on Ross, created around 1870 and known as the old White Rock Road, since it was a route to the old mill and named after ...................Col.A.J.Ross who owned a big house on Ross near Feild and Akard today,an old timmer by the name of Edd Cornwall tells it like this in april of 1923, feilds near akard once grew cotton, and in 1870, we cut and pulled out stumps and ditched the road and graded the pasture into a road that ran through string town and then freedmantown to what is now jack Coles place,all the while it was a hot summer when this road work was done and created.....then we called it Ross ave after Col. Ross, who had a brother W.W by the way,.....W.W.Ross Died in 1899 at the age OF 78, while Col Ross died in 1905, all the while they were intresting people and famous in Dallas at the time for all kinds of unsual hobbies and intrest, A.J once entered his little pointer bitch bread dog in an international Dog event in Switzrland around 1901 and won first place,while his daughter Cathrine, went to europe in 1925, and so the Ross,s on Ross Ave had style and meaning..... along time ago...then again, should this old road have a name change...lets find out in the weeks to come now that we know who the Ross and maybe later Goss on such an old road really were and if it matters besides they came from Dallas, until then Alexander M.Troup, urban Historian...
3 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
alexander troup Verified
One last thing about Ross Ave name change, I rode down there over the weekend and saw the DART rail line and streets now under construction, old blocks of what was once the great homes on ross, were now being removed by the truckloads,to land refill sites as dozers and trucks remove old Dallas Texas earth for new developement considered the ROSS HEIGHTS, which will become the center face for The downtown Arts district,meanhwile I ran across somthing that caught my eye and investigative,thought process.....in 1899 W.W.ROSS was a brother to A.J ROSS, While in the 1899 obituary of W.W Says, came to TEXAS in 1854 then to Dallas in 1867, Ross ave was named in his honor, he was practical man,a gardner and a orchard grower of the finest speicmen in the Southwest....while he will be missed, and a Jacksonian democrat, now doesnt that sound good, for a man who may have had a lot to do with plants and rights... didnt Cesar have the same notion in old California with lettice and peoples rights.........Dallas landmarks are not only buildings, they are also streets and cemeteries where these prominent people have become the history of the City, until then...Alexander Troup, Urban Historian.
3 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Mike Orren Staff
There's now a "Save Ross" petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/save...
3 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bill Betzen Verified
Alexander Troup, I like what you have written. Is it possible you can help us create an online history for the Ross Brothers and Ross Avenue? It can then be part of the historical marker that is planned for the West End. If that historical marker could have a link on it to the Dallas Historical Society home page, and a page dedicated to the Ross Brothers and the history of Ross Avenue, then a full history would be available from this day forward to anyone interested. Sadly, as you know, very few people knew the source of the Ross name. We cannot let that happen. I strongly support the change to Cesar Chavez Avenue for many reasons, one of them is the potential to bring back into public awareness the true history of the Ross Brothers that has been lost to public memory.
3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
DC Anonymous
Screw you, citizens of Dallas, here it is!
Sincerely, Dallas City Hall
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfai...
3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
joey77 Anonymous
In August, the mayor agreed that he would support the recommendations of the Latino city council members and asked them to cooperate with the community. If 3 Latino concils support it, Mayor said he would support it. Ross is the one-and-only- choice. The Cathedreal of Guadalupe on Ross Ave, a gathering of thousands of Hispanic parishioners every Sunday. Cesar Chavez used the Lady de Guadalupe as a symbol of peace during his movement. Also, the DISD headquarters is located on Ross Ave. Last year 70% of kindergarten students in Dallas ISD were HISPANIC. Cesar Chavez came to Dallas(most recent visit 1991) and rallied for the rights of ALL laboreres of all ethnic groups who worked in conditions Cesar Chavez helped change. He promoted better rights and wages to workers in Texas and the Nation. Also, thousands of workers in Dallas grew up in working conditions that Cesar Chavez worked to improve. Cesar Chavez is a 2nd generation U.S. born citizen whou fought in WWII and was awarded the Medal of Freedom by President Clinton... A TRUE AMERICAN HERo.. (for those who didnt know). Preservation of a segment of Ross where the family resided as is an include a HISTORICAL MARKER IN HONOR OF THE ROSS BROTHERS IN the corner of Ross Ave. and Market. We have NEVER HAD A THOROUGHFARE in Dallas honoring a Latino. Cesar Chavez is OUR NATION LEADER who deserves to be honored.
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
Put up a statue of Cesar on the corner of Ross and Market. Hell, put up a huge statue of Cesar on the corner of Ross and Pearl right in front of the Cathedral.
Make him a Dallas landmark for folks to have their picture taken in front of, not just some street covered in dirt and oil.
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
joey77 Anonymous
Its not just about a street name, but about honoring Cesar Chavez work and history. It is unquestionable that the latino community supports what they believe and what they believe is in Cesar Chavez. He is an AMERICAN hero.. he is our hero and the people of Dallas need to know how important this is, and how Cesar Chavez helped the people in the city of Dallas.
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
Okay, so if it's not just about the name, then why does the street name have to change? Is naming a street after him the only creative way you folks can come up with to honor him? What about a park, a school, an annual festival or music event, a statue?
I'm just saying there are surely alternatives to changing a street name that would be accepted by all.
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
What are they naming the park they're taking so long to 'build' downtown? You couldn't get much more high-profile than right in the middle of downtown.
I'm just saying that shoving this lone, single-minded idea of changing Ross to Cesar Chavez down the throats of Dallas residents might not be the best way to get them to know and appreciate the man. It might only cause irritation and annoyance instead of honor.
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Clay213 Anonymous
I personally love the duplicity of the argument:
Demand: We need to name a street after Chavez so people will remember him!
Argument: Ross is the best choice because no one remembers who that street was named after anyway!
Remember folks, it helps to think your argument all the way through.
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Jason Rice Verified
Clay - I don't know which I dread more, fighting with you or agreeing with you, but you're 100% on spot.
While "Hey, put up a plaque for Ross" when it's obviously not acceptable for Chavez is by any measure a leap, you hit the nail on the head. "Oh THIS guy is famous enough already that people won't forget him like whatsisname." (so he needs a street, why?)
I for one am dying to see the dichotomy of the tony Museum Tower integrating "a laborers hero" into their ad campaign. That's gotta be worth the price of admission alone.
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Clay213 Anonymous
I've got an idea Dallas(or it's corrupt city government) is sure to love!
Street naming rights.
Just like those stadiums and arenas-- we can auction off our street names to the highest bidders.
What a wonderful way to fill the cities coffers(coffins?) right?
One year Ross Ave could be ATT Blvd(no company would want to be associated with a lowly street or ave), the next year it might be Dickies BBQ. This way we would never need to worry about a street being named after some long dead person no one even remembers or gives a damn about.
Think of the possibilities for the Latino community then!
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Andrew Laska Verified
Rick,
FYI: There is a school named after Cesar Chavez in Dallas.
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Alex Bentley Staff
Actually, Andrew, in addition to the one in Dallas, there's one in Fort Worth and one in Little Elm.
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Jason Rice Verified
I like Clay's commercial solution. This year Dallas can celebrate its rich and deep heritage of seasonal farming and organized labor and next year we can shift over to being a
whore tobastion of sports footwear innovation as we put the bids out to Nike/Addidas. That way on any given year we can make people feel completely at home be they from Stockholm, Dubai or even Bangalore.Dallas is nothing if not home to
the oldestenterprise.3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Robert Kelly Verified
I think they should name the Planned Parenthood building after Cesar Chavez.
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
I'll need an irl AdBlock for such shenanigans.
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
12ozfred Anonymous
I'm with Robert Kelly: "I think they should name the Planned Parenthood building after Cesar Chavez."
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
David Gouldin Staff
So then Google maps would give you directions to the corner of ............... and ...............?
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
I'd sooner get lost than watch Dallas whore itself out even more.
lol, love that the URL is still Smirnoff Music Centre. =p
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Jason Rice Verified
Fred's BACK! Yay!
Snazzy formatting trick David. No wonder you pay the rent this-a-way.
C'mon Doyle, a girl's gotta make a living, and with morals like this girl's got... well.
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Dallas Spohn Verified
Lets name it sandy cheeks ave. <-- would like to know who can reference it? Robert Kelly, you saying the whole topic is an abortion?
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
Thanks Andrew- I didn't know that.
So, I guess that's just not enough, huh? Having a school- in Dallas, named after Chavez is just 'so bla·sé', they still feel entitled to a street as well.
Well, bless their hearts.
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
DC Anonymous
We're not renaming Pearl here?
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
Thankfully, no!
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
jtmbls Anonymous
Not even if we rename it Smoke Em if Ya Got Em Avenue?? ;-)
3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Clay213 Anonymous
it just ghit me tha tthe title of this article is 'changin g name of ross make LOGICAL SENSE" no logic is involved i n this argumjent at all !
2 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Jason Rice Verified
LOL - How about "Political Sense"?
Or "Appeasement Sense"?
Or we might agree "No Sense"
2 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
joey77 Anonymous
How bout you just accepting the fact that Cesar Chavez was a great man and a true American Hero who did alot for Dallas. If anyone should ask who are the Ross brothers?? I hardly doubt that anybody will know that answer.. only that they were a couple of landowners.. But Cesar Chavez rallied for the rights of ALll laborers of all ethnic groups who worked in conditions Cesar Chavez helped change. It is LOGICAL to change the name of ROSS ave. into Cesar Chavez ave.! THATS THE ONLY LOGICAL AND RESPECTFUL THING TO DO FOR ALL THE LATINOS OF DALLAS!
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Robert Kelly Verified
name one thing he did in or for dallas specifically joey77. just one. i double dog dare you.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
joey77- No one is arguing that your hero was just that- a hero! That's cool. But why do you feel the best way to honor the dude is to rename a street after him?
I mean, how much has naming Martin Luther King Blvd done for MLK? Or LBJ freeway done for LBJ, or Malcolm X? In a year's time after all the hooplah is over, and life goes on, everyone forgets. It's just a freakin street.
It just amazes me that you folks get so outraged that everyone's not going for the idea. What makes you so entitled?
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Jason Rice Verified
See, Rick, had you been following the nearly identical thread here you'd be a convert like me. Apparently, renaming a street Cesar Chavez will fix the huge dropout problem.
I now believe that it will irradicate teen pregnancy, keep shaving razors sharp indefinitely and reduce global warming. Cars get double gas mileage on streets named Cesar Chavez and flouridated water from fountains on those roads prevent impotence and reverse male-pattern baldness.
More over, it will make all Dallas Latinos proud, happy, prosperous and more integrated - each and every one.
I'm all for it now. Screw the Ross's. What did they ever do for the proud tradition of seasonal migrant farming and organized labor that defines modern Dallas?
Really, man? You're so backwards.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bill Betzen Verified
Some of the postings in this blog indicate the need for some of the most priceless lessons Cesar Chavez taught. Look at the link:
http://www.tolerance.org/teach/resour...
We have a lot to learn. Cesar Chavez can be a priceless resource, unless we want to revert to some of the social attitudes publically accepted before 1960.
Robert Kelly, in the area of tolerance you appear to be right. The effect of the teaching of Cesar Chavez may not have been accepted by many people in Dallas yet. Do you know much about the work of Cesar Chavez?
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Robert Kelly Verified
I know as much as I do about MLK, Ghandi, and other broadly celebrated rights activists. I know that he was a champion for farm workers which is why I like the idea about naming the farmers market for him. I know he was an education champion, which is why I like the idea of schools and libraries named after him.
"How bout you just accepting the fact that Cesar Chavez was a great man and a true American Hero who did alot for Dallas." - Joey77
I also believe in calling BS when people make stupid statements. I'm still waiting for Joey to put up or, well, you know.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Robert Kelly Verified
i also know Chavez has a bowling alley named after him in Amarillo. I'm not sure what that is all about.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Jason Rice Verified
Oddly enough they do have a great deal of migrant labor up there in Amarillo, so you might think it appropriate to name a popular hangout after him - nowhere near the teeming throngs of farmworkers we apparently have, but a lot by rural standards.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
12ozfred Anonymous
I dunno either Robert...maybe they sale grape juice at that bowling alley.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Mark-Brian Sonna Verified
I don't get it....Ross Avenue is named after the Ross family who contributed greatly in their own way to the formation of Dallas making it the city that it is. Without people like them, and the Akards, and Ervays, etc. Dallas would not be Dallas. These early leaders (business, political, etc.) helped plant the seed that became our city like it or not. Without them Dallas would not have started its evolution to what it is now which means there wouldn't be a desire to do this name change ona street. In a way, Ross' success is what is causing his namesake downfall.
Perhaps 100 years from now Cesar Chavez Ave (if it does have the name change) will fall out of fashion as p[eople forget who he was and a new name will be given to it. Very Orwellian.
I still can't fathom why they don't want to change the name of Live Oak where the Latino Cultural Center, which is supposed to be the pride of the Latino community, to Cesar Chavez. There was no Mr or Mrs Live Oak.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
xdavidwattsx Anonymous
Are you guys really still arguing about this?
I feel like there are 20 threads and 500 comments devoted to a topic that honestly seems pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Jason Rice Verified
Mark-Brian, because they need to rename Live Oak after Gandhi. As a matter of fact, I think I'm going to put all my energy into that little project. (tee hee) If you can't beat 'em, flank 'em.
The article facetiously suggests Swiss or Main, but I'm thinkin' Live Oak is just perfect for the purpose. It's all about inclusion, right? And Gandhi was definitely a bigger contributor to Dallas history than a particular tree genus.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
You're all missing the point. (my point) Any street you re-name will have a great many businesses and homes on it that will have to spend their own money to change their stationery, and then they'll have to deal with the postal changes.
Was CC all about innocent folks, guilty only of living on the wrong street, suffering his name so he could be remembered? I doubt he'd say yes. That's my point. Don't change any street names. Swiss, Live Oak, Ross, Peak, Corinth, Cadiz, Lawther Dr, Buckner, Glasgow, none of them.
The best idea I've heard yet, is naming the Farmer's Market after him.
And while we're still beating this horse, when did this all come up anyway? Was there a push to name a street after CC before the city council brought up changing Industrial?
I'm really asking.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bill Betzen Verified
Robert Kelly, if you really wanted an answer to the question about some of the connections of Cesar Chavez to Dallas you can read one answer in the Dallas Morning News today at http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedconte....
I say this is only one answer. I have heard many answers as I speak with friends who worked in fields, or basic hard labor, that Cesar Chavez showed us how to change. Tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Dallas citizens also have parents, grandparents and other ancestors who worked in the fields in conditions that Cesar Chavez worked to make more human.
How many days have you spent in the hot sun working in fields cutting weeds or harvesting crops? 5 days? 20 weeks? 5 years? What were you paid?
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
How about an answer to my question Bill.
I would think you would be the one to know how long this push to rename Ross has been going on.
Was it spurred by the city council?
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bill Betzen Verified
I have only been involved in it since Industrial. I do not know the history before then. As you can see from my http://www.studentmotivation.org/litt... web site, I have a long time devotion to the history of Dallas and specifically Little Mexico. After 41 years in Dallas County, 2 more years than either of the Ross Brothers spent here, I have picked up a mass of facts about the History of Dallas that makes me strongly believe we need to build up our history and quit keeping it hidden, especially the history of that large majority in Dallas who are other than the 29% who are Anglo non-Hispanic. The fact that embracing personal history is a major key in stopping our Dallas dropout crisis is part of the reason I am personally unwilling to discuss alternatives to renaming Ross Avenue. It is the best and only alternative in my opinion. Maybe you can find someone else to talk with about regarding such alternatives.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Robert Kelly Verified
So Bill, what say we name a street after everyone who visits Dallas 20 times. We can even have a punch card. With your 20th punch you get a street sign.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Robert Kelly Verified
And I agree with the final quote in the article.
"Why are we changing the name of a street that already has a history?"
Why not Live Oak, where the Cultural Center is?
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Jason Rice Verified
Rick - fwiw
Reference to first meeting - Jun 16 - yes concurrent with the Industrial announcement.
Just data, but that looks to have been a busy week.
It is nice to see it was a real live human and not a law firm in San Antonio or some such. To me, that's a smattering of cred.
Robert - I like the idea. We're about two visits from OJ Simpson Circle! Cool!
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Mike Orren Staff
The fact that embracing personal history is a major key in stopping our Dallas dropout crisis is part of the reason I am personally unwilling to discuss alternatives to renaming Ross Avenue.
That's why I think it's time to let this discussion join the equine graveyard. Arguing in circles with folks who ignore reason and is absolutely immovable is beneath the PegNews community. Let's show we have more wit, wisdom and restraint than the general mass of sheeple on other sites.
I'm done providing entertainment on what is, at best, a trivial issue for our city. I'm not closing comments, but I'm urging our regulars to join me.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
xdavidwattsx Anonymous
"I'm not closing comments, but I'm urging our regulars to join me. "
Praise be to baby jebus!
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
Thanks Jason.
Bill Betzen, you and I'll just have to agree to dis-agree. That's okay.
I'm just an ol' white guy/East Dallas/trailer-trash redneck/turned hippie back when it was cool. I don't have a real interesting heritage or regal ancestry to shove in everyone else's face to make me feel better about myself. I have to just take life as it changes in front of me.
Since I don't have such a history, I just don't understand the need for such a thing. But that's okay. I don't have to have an answer for everything. Sometimes I just have to accept that some people need more 'grounding' than I do. I am an individual, and although I love my family, I am not a member of any group- ethnic or otherwise.
In all honesty, no, I didn't know a thing about Cesar Chavez before this all started. So in a way, you're already doing what you strive for- to honor the man. Although, since I was forced to learn of the man, I still don't have a great yearning to learn more, or any great reverence for him or his name. He's just someone else's hero I was forced to learn about.
However,(and I'm about to bow out of this thread- I'm not into filibusters) I hope that things do work out for your cause and your community. I wish that everybody could get all the respect they feel they deserve. I'm just old and so tired of all of society's different racial factions pushing and shoving each other. For someone like myself that has never shoved anyone, it just seems a bit silly.
If you want the world to change,(and I've said this to myself in the mirror many times) you may have to start with yourself.
Adios. Peace
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bill Betzen Verified
Rick, I agree: "If you want the world to change,(and I've said this to myself in the mirror many times) you may have to start with yourself." I said the same to myself often.
Amen! Adios, Peace.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
Personally, I thought a dead fetus on the fire people's doorstep was comment-worthy.
Two people had something to say.
Meanwhile, half the goddamn metroplex seems to be up in arms about changing some street signs. I was vehemently against these cats making such a huge stink about this at first simply b/c it's too asinine to pass up. But I just don't care anymore. I stand by my nomination for Poop Ave, if there's still a ballot.
Clearly, Cesar Chavez is more important than life itself. Praise Cesar!
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Jason Rice Verified
In the spirit:
Petition to kill the thread
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bill Betzen Verified
Mike, have you studied factors that are highly correlated with students dropping out? Lack of a connection to their past and future is probably the most common factor. Lack of goals, self respect, respect for their own culture all conribute. Any positive roll model helps change that, dead or alive.
Unfortuantely most of Dallas agrees with you and thinks of the dropout issue as a "beating a dead horse" issue. They quickly make fun of dropout prevention efforts which are very easy to critique and destroy, but very difficult to build up and make succeed. You certainly represent the majority! Is it any wonder that 60% of Dallas 9th graders are "missing at graduation?"
Study what we are doing at http://www.studentmotivation.org and then decide if we are beating a dead horse. This Cesar Chavez effort is only a tiny side distraction from the School Archive Project, an effort that only I personally support, but the philosophy fits very well with the entire project. Do you know of another dropout prevention project that can point to a 25% decrease in the dropout rate for $2 per student?
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Robert Kelly Verified
I'm out too Bill, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Enjoyed the banter. Hopefully we'll get the chance to chat over a beer sometime. And good luck with the student motivation project. Looks like good work.
2 months, 3 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bill Betzen Verified
Robert,